Why can't I get my head around compression?!?!

 
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1 years ago
sean cronin
seanc Pic1487 Posts
IrelandCork
Music Style Happyhardtrancehousecore
Im producing over 6 years now and still do this day after watching and reading countless things on compression I can't get my head around it yet il use it on most things in a track. On kicks I find its great but on other stuff I just don't know what I should be aiming for and find I generally end up using the same settings for most things without any regard as to what effect it should have over the sound!

Is there any definitive tutorial people go by or what tips could help me here I really want to understand it! Im questioning how slow I am these days over it haeyesupmunteddunce
1 years ago
System Alert
5235 Posts
United KingdomCoventry
Music Style Hardhouse
Someone told me to use it on things to bring volume up.

I put it on vocals with same settings and the clarity was much better,other than that nowadays i generally shove on on all my perc after learning that last weekend and like you notice the diff to the kick and thats about it.

I also got told better way is simply to boost a little at 2KHz for clarity on vocals,which also works happy, so i generally use one on perc all the time and thats it personally.

I did once or twice use it on basslines,but most of the time,can't hear the diff.

Like you i understand the principles behind it. thumbsup


Post edited by owner 9/1/2010 2:36:51 PM
1 years ago
Iain
2441 Posts
United KingdomManchester
use it for controlling dynamic range. so..
1. to make drums punchier.
2. you can use it to bring out quieter elements in a sound (like a drum loop or a long echoing delay).
3. you can use it make pumping and sucking effects - used a lot in rolling basslines and more commercial pop/dance tracks. read up on side chaining.
4. mix compression. google bus compression and parallel compressoin - will make a mix more cohesive and sound more gelled and professional.
5... controlling the range of singers... so to ensure a consistant vocal level is achieved throughout the song - quiet passages louder and loud bits are tamed.

theres lots more but thats all i can think off of the top of my head. Theres no right and wrong settings because its all dependant on the input signal and what your trying to achieve - so i wouldnt reply at all on presets on the compressor plugin.

if you cant hear a difference then your probably doing it wrong or the sound is already compressed - a common problem when using drum samples...

as a general rule i would use fast attacks on drums - 10-15ms to allow the initial transients of the sound uncompressed and then use the release and ratio to bring up the level of the latter part of the sound.

mix compression i would never use more than 2:1 ratio really - bear in mind compression ratios are multiplicative not additive. ie if you compress your kick at 4:1 and then use a mix bus comp at 3:1 then the effective ratio is 12:1...
1 years ago
Mr Miyagi
mrmiyagi Pic3358 Posts
USAChicago
Music Style music music music

one thing that helped me understand better was to compress the shit out of things to see what happened. try these...

 

1. take a lot of random elements (say about 5-8 channels; different volumes and timbres on each) and bus them and throw a compressor on the bus. try different settings and listen to what happens.

 

2. write a crazy bassline with lots of volume changes (like a 2 bar bassline with lots of notes) and then compress the crap out of that.

 

3. sing a stupid vocal in the same fashion as the bassline. just speak some sections and yell during others. compress it.

 

Remember compressors were made to control dynamic range, like Iain said. That's what they do. What you should be listening for is evening out of really dynamic material, which is what you should hear if you do these tests.

 

1 years ago
adam p
41 Posts
 If a sound fluctuates in volume overtime and you don't want it too, use compression to get a constant volume.

Thats generally what compression was intended for. Dont think you have to stick a compressor on everything just because your always hearing about it. If it ant broke don't try to fix it
1 years ago
sean cronin
seanc Pic1487 Posts
IrelandCork
Music Style Happyhardtrancehousecore
Cheers, lads. Miyagi I think il try out what youve said there. Start up a new project with various sounds and just compress the hell out of them. Theres quite a number of vids on youtube so will have a peek at some of them tomorrow!

What way do you guys compress when you master?
1 years ago
DeXiTroN
dexitron Pic1053 Posts
AustraliaR-Adelaide
Music Style Whatever your mum likes in the morning!!
Sonic Academy do a compression tutorial dvd, i watched it and learnt quite alot - they use ableton's tools.. and other vst's too.. Pm me and ill send ya the link mate.. !
1 years ago
maverick
ompressor Pic607 Posts
Englandswindon
Music Style GUESS
a simple way i use compression was fast attack for drums long release for bass
1 years ago
Dramatik
3859 Posts
AustraliaAdelaide
Music Style Heavy basslines
if you dont need to compress anything in ur tracks dont, i only use very light compression (unless your going for the pumping effect in electro etc)
1 years ago
James Taff (JT2)
jamestaff Pic1840 Posts
United KingdomDudlay
Music Style Melodic Badness Tuffness

Yeh to be honest i rarely compress anything, only if it needs. Think some people get obsessed by it thinking they have to compress the hell out of everything.

1 years ago
NICKtheGreek
nickthegreek Pic2531 Posts
United KingdomSeaton
Music Style The Dance Music
First of all nobody has said what sort of process compression is? Compression is a DOWNWARD process (always remember that and this helps alot) Expansion is UPWARD process.To be honest the material you use will nearly always be heavily compressed, samples from sample packs or an acapella. Find some material that has no compression like a sung vox from a friend or something spoken from of the internet and try and control the level of the audio. With one compressor and time you should be able to get a highly dynamic piece of audio levelled out. Learn this process and your on your way to good master buss compression for your tracks. Thats what compression was first intended for. Now then there's experimental compression, drum buss pumping etc. Kicks going to be the loudest sound going into your compressor unless its a snare in some types of music. Learn to set the threshold so this is the only part that triggers the compressor then tweak how fast you would like it to affect the sound and listen what effect it has on the sounds that dont pass the threshold. Turn auto make up gain off aswell, i think that helps to hear what is going on better. Remember one compressor does'nt fit all. All compressors react at different times. 1ms on one compressor might not be as fast on another. By The Dance Music Manual Second Edition. Excellent section on all the different types of compressors and what there best uses are. There's compressors out there with only a threshold and make up like the LA-2A. Reacts to the material accordingly, best on longer sounds like bass and vocals for gentle transparent levelling. Thats just one example. Have fun!!
1 years ago
Hoover slut
adamnrg Pic22287 Posts
East TimorSouthend
Music Style Nasty As Fuck
In reply to
Im producing over 6 years now and still do this day after watching and reading countless things on compression I can't get my head around it yet il use it on most things in a track. On kicks I find its great but on other stuff I just don't know what I should be aiming for and find I generally end up using the same settings for most things without any regard as to what effect it should have over the sound!

Is there any definitive tutorial people go by or what tips could help me here I really want to understand it! Im questioning how slow I am these days over it haeyesupmunteddunce

Exactly the same thing here mate. I dont think il ever get it tbh, read countless tutorials, been in lessons where its explained, watched vids etc. Just never get it.
1 years ago
Hoover slut
adamnrg Pic22287 Posts
East TimorSouthend
Music Style Nasty As Fuck
In reply to
Sonic Academy do a compression tutorial dvd, i watched it and learnt quite alot - they use ableton's tools.. and other vst's too.. Pm me and ill send ya the link mate.. !

Fancy posting the link in here mate?
1 years ago
Iain
2441 Posts
United KingdomManchester

good compression should be subtle anyway.  if you weant to hear it properly try this.

 

threshold to about -20. release to fastest possible 10ms or something, ratio 10:1 and attack very slow. so should not really change the sound too much because the attack is very long so will take a long time for compression to kick in..  now increase the attack gradually and listen to the dynamics of the sound change.  on drums there will be a sweet spot between punchy and heavily compressed. and remeber your listening to the effect on the very start (transients) of the sound and nothing else.  now back off on the ratio and the threshold til it sounds natural.

1 years ago
Cycle 13
pr1cer Pic7133 Posts
Virgin Islands (U.S.)Hereford
Music Style Slosh-step
In reply to
a simple way i use compression was fast attack for drums long release for bass

What if you wanted to keep the transients of the kick?  Using a fast attack would squash them so you cant really apply this rule to all drums.  Each sound needs to be processed on it's own merit.
1 years ago
breadwing
breadwing Pic859 Posts
United KingdomColchester
Music Style Hard House/NRG & Psy Trance
Another thing to remember is that with synthesisers and electronic sounds they aren't likely to fluctuate much compared to recordings of actual instruments like Geetars or piano accordions so there isn't usually a major need for compression.
1 years ago
DeXiTroN
dexitron Pic1053 Posts
AustraliaR-Adelaide
Music Style Whatever your mum likes in the morning!!
The main thing I learnt from it all is that you start with your compressors dials at full-on, then work it all backwards until it sounds right.. Shouldnt hear much happening at all..
1 years ago
Megamind
7214 Posts
United States
Music Style Domased Electronica
In reply to
Why can't I get my head around compression?!?!

Did you try getting compression around your head?
1 years ago
jonny sauce pants
piers Pic2864 Posts
Irelandyeah
Music Style elbow tek
In reply to
In reply to
Why can't I get my head around compression?!?!

Did you try getting compression around your head?
I tried that once , cut a hole in a box and stuck my head in it and filled her with compost , makes a banging kick thumbsup
1 years ago
Simon Parkes - FrozenUK
sjp Pic8960 Posts
WalesLlanidloes
Music Style Melodic
laughing - i was the same when starting out, Compression...WTF?!

It was all hardware when i had one, and my first ever main professional mixes didnt have any which is why they sounded flat in places.

Think of compression as having an octopus as your engineer and controlling all your levels on a hardware mixing desk at once....riding the levels in real time as your track records to reel-to-reel. Some levels can stay the same throughout the mix but others need to dip with others needing a boost every now and then.

So, putting an electronic gain control over some of the mixer channels can overcome this.

Dont get mixed up with Side-chain as this is giving the compressor a precise ear to an EXACT sound to respond to.

This is the way i look at it anyway... smile 
1 years ago
Mr Miyagi
mrmiyagi Pic3358 Posts
USAChicago
Music Style music music music
hey mate, found this on another forum....


I understand your frustration. Learning how to properly employ compression and limiting is one of the "black arts" of audio recording. Unfortunately, no tutorial or book can really teach you HOW--those sources are great to answer they "why" and define terms like compression ratio, hysteresis, and so forth. Definitely read what you can to get a thorough understanding of the technical aspects of how a compressor functions.

However, compression--like everything else in the world, is something that requires a lot of practice in order to master. Avoiding compression will not solve your problem, it will not make you more skilled at hearing what needs to be done. It will only delay your progress.

One element that I feel you have left out of your equation is the *character* of dynamic control. While the express purpose of compression is to manipulation of volume levels, there is a secondary audio effect that occurs when audio is processed by a dynamic altering device. In many cases this secondary effect is the MOST important element as it imparts a tone, a vibe, an overall "feel." Generally speaking, many audio engineers I know--including myself--select a compressor not for its ability to control dynamics but the character it imparts. Removing this 'voodoo' from the mix tends to impart a very amateur sound to a record in many music genres, because we've so closely associated the sound of certain compressors and limiters with that of a hit record.

While I'm not sure exactly what issue you are having there are a few areas that newer engineers have problems with when it comes to dynamic control. See if any of these suggestions help you out:

1.) The biggest mistake I see most young engineers make is failure to compress enough. You'd be surprised how much compression gets used on certain elements like vocals. 12 or 15 db's of gain reduction is the norm, not the exception.

2.) You shouldn't be able to "hear" the compressor WORKING. It's okay to hear things being squashed, but if it's pumping and sucking... that's usually a bad thing (not always--listen to some of The Beatles or Led Zeppelin's cymbals... major pumpin' going on!). If this is happening try adjusting your release rate to be a little longer, or shorten the attack time. If that doesn't work try a limiter.

3.) If things sound too distorted, try increasing the attack time. Or once again use a limiter.

4.) Limiters are your friends. This is just my preference, but 90% of the time I use a limiter (Waves L1 in software, LA2A, LA3A or Summit Audio in real life) rather than a compressor. I'm selective with what I compress. Sometimes I will use both a limiter and a compressor to get what I want. This is a personal preference, but useful to know it happens when just starting out.

5.) Try to "time" your compressor attack and release to the audio. Dial it in there until you get the magic setting for the material. This is something you just have to learn to hear, and reflects artistic choice on your behalf. Generally speaking this is critical for kick/snare sounds.

6.) Not all compressors/limiters are created equal. Some just work better on different sources than others. Some are absolutely daft except in certain contexts, but ALL of them prove useful on something. That may only happen once a year, but you'd be surprised what cool sounds you can get.

7.) Research and learn about the different compressor flavors. Fet, Mu-based tube designs, VCA and so forth. Each bring different things to the table.

8.) If you set your mix levels before you compress/limit you're going to have to reset the mix levels. Generally speaking I control dynamics first, mix later. Of course, to do that you have to "know" what a decent setting is. Once the levels are set a few compression tweaks may happen. No big deal, just hit them harder or softer.

9.) PRACTICE. The only way to get good at this is to make a million mistakes. We've all done it. There isn't a single engineer in the history of audio that didn't first crawl in the feces filled trenches of terrible sounding audio before they learned to walk. I know I had my fair share of "WHOOPS" on albums where you wonder what in the hell you were thinking. Heck, I think all of us still manage to screw things up a little bit if the hour is late, the coffee pot is empty, the deadline is near and the artist is being a pain.

Hope this helps, best of luck--the only thing more difficult than learning how to professionally utilize compression is mixing midrange frequencies and getting vocals to "soar."
1 years ago
Simon Parkes - FrozenUK
sjp Pic8960 Posts
WalesLlanidloes
Music Style Melodic
Nice simple way of understanding... great list....my kinda list! smilethumbsup
1 years ago
sean cronin
seanc Pic1487 Posts
IrelandCork
Music Style Happyhardtrancehousecore
In reply to
hey mate, found this on another forum....


I understand your frustration. Learning how to properly employ compression and limiting is one of the "black arts" of audio recording. Unfortunately, no tutorial or book can really teach you HOW--those sources are great to answer they "why" and define terms like compression ratio, hysteresis, and so forth. Definitely read what you can to get a thorough understanding of the technical aspects of how a compressor functions.

However, compression--like everything else in the world, is something that requires a lot of practice in order to master. Avoiding compression will not solve your problem, it will not make you more skilled at hearing what needs to be done. It will only delay your progress.

One element that I feel you have left out of your equation is the *character* of dynamic control. While the express purpose of compression is to manipulation of volume levels, there is a secondary audio effect that occurs when audio is processed by a dynamic altering device. In many cases this secondary effect is the MOST important element as it imparts a tone, a vibe, an overall "feel." Generally speaking, many audio engineers I know--including myself--select a compressor not for its ability to control dynamics but the character it imparts. Removing this 'voodoo' from the mix tends to impart a very amateur sound to a record in many music genres, because we've so closely associated the sound of certain compressors and limiters with that of a hit record.

While I'm not sure exactly what issue you are having there are a few areas that newer engineers have problems with when it comes to dynamic control. See if any of these suggestions help you out:

1.) The biggest mistake I see most young engineers make is failure to compress enough. You'd be surprised how much compression gets used on certain elements like vocals. 12 or 15 db's of gain reduction is the norm, not the exception.

2.) You shouldn't be able to "hear" the compressor WORKING. It's okay to hear things being squashed, but if it's pumping and sucking... that's usually a bad thing (not always--listen to some of The Beatles or Led Zeppelin's cymbals... major pumpin' going on!). If this is happening try adjusting your release rate to be a little longer, or shorten the attack time. If that doesn't work try a limiter.

3.) If things sound too distorted, try increasing the attack time. Or once again use a limiter.

4.) Limiters are your friends. This is just my preference, but 90% of the time I use a limiter (Waves L1 in software, LA2A, LA3A or Summit Audio in real life) rather than a compressor. I'm selective with what I compress. Sometimes I will use both a limiter and a compressor to get what I want. This is a personal preference, but useful to know it happens when just starting out.

5.) Try to "time" your compressor attack and release to the audio. Dial it in there until you get the magic setting for the material. This is something you just have to learn to hear, and reflects artistic choice on your behalf. Generally speaking this is critical for kick/snare sounds.

6.) Not all compressors/limiters are created equal. Some just work better on different sources than others. Some are absolutely daft except in certain contexts, but ALL of them prove useful on something. That may only happen once a year, but you'd be surprised what cool sounds you can get.

7.) Research and learn about the different compressor flavors. Fet, Mu-based tube designs, VCA and so forth. Each bring different things to the table.

8.) If you set your mix levels before you compress/limit you're going to have to reset the mix levels. Generally speaking I control dynamics first, mix later. Of course, to do that you have to "know" what a decent setting is. Once the levels are set a few compression tweaks may happen. No big deal, just hit them harder or softer.

9.) PRACTICE. The only way to get good at this is to make a million mistakes. We've all done it. There isn't a single engineer in the history of audio that didn't first crawl in the feces filled trenches of terrible sounding audio before they learned to walk. I know I had my fair share of "WHOOPS" on albums where you wonder what in the hell you were thinking. Heck, I think all of us still manage to screw things up a little bit if the hour is late, the coffee pot is empty, the deadline is near and the artist is being a pain.

Hope this helps, best of luck--the only thing more difficult than learning how to professionally utilize compression is mixing midrange frequencies and getting vocals to "soar."
Good find!! Gives some nice points there. Ive been practicing mad last week compressing different elements and slowly, very slowly im kinda gettin the hand of it.

Gonna check out that sonic academy vid later! Bit hungover now so can't keep my head straight for 2 mins.
1 years ago
Hoover slut
adamnrg Pic22287 Posts
East TimorSouthend
Music Style Nasty As Fuck
In reply to
Heres the link to that vid: http://proaudiotorrents.org/details.php?id=22418

Meh have to be logged in to watch, and cant sign up either =(

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