Jamie

Of course most of them don't pay tax, thats a no brainer,  but then the clever ones don't advertise there services on the web.

Havent you heard Pats tracks,  he skips this bit! 

It's a skill yeah. Not a specialist skill. It aint brain surgery. What planet are you on! You can haggle any price you muppet!

Well, personally speaking, no I don't pay tax, not that it's anyone's business at all... I don't have to because I still have SO much capital depreciation on the books that I will never go into the black. Everything is legit and goes through the books. So...because I don't have to pay tax does that mean I should charge less then everyone else? LMFAO.

And Denny, yes I AM reading your posts. Not sure if you're reading mine though m8. I'm not being wishy wahsy about this and seeing both sides. You're not seeming to understand costs.

There's a service that's offered for a price. That price is not only dictated by the customers but by overheads and the actual need of the service provider to be able to put food in his mouth and a roof over his head. If the service is unique or different from others it can attract a premium and no amount of bleating by customers is going to change that. You're not going to get Timo making you a track for £100. Does he give a shit you can only sell 20 copies? No. Why should he, it's not his problem if you can't market and sell the product, which if you can't means you've either got the wrong product or your in the wrong market, or both.


There's no point going to Rolls Royce and saying 'make me a car for £5000' because no matter what they'll say 'fuck off to Ford then, it wil cost £90,000 to manufacture your Rolls Royce, not a penny more not a penny less'
'Well that's no good you say' I'll give you £90,000 but I will only be able to sell it on for £10,000'
'Tough shit' says Rolls Royce. 'That's how much it will cost to manufacture, we only use premium materials, the latest technology, everything is hand built, the seats individually hand sewn etc and we only make 9% margin, you're in the wrong market'
'But I want a Rolls Royce'.....
'Buy a Rolls for £90000 or don't buy a Rolls, your choice m8'

But what would happen if Rolls did start providing Rolls Royce cars for £5000 just to please folks who don't know any better??

Right so it's the labels that aren't doin enough then?

Thats what you think, because you dont engineer!  ffs, have you ever produced for someone else whos throwing ideas at you then changing thier mind to another idea then that idea doesnt work then it throws the track out and you have to pull it back together etc etc and so on??.. normally you dont haggle with services because the idea behind it is, if you dont like what they offer then go elsewhere! you dont go into whsmiths and say "tell you what il give you a fiver for that mag yehhh?"

 

 

Id nver take anything away from what an engineer does. The good one's i.e Owens, Stevens, Maddox, Dom etc etc do an amazing job. Would one argument be that maybe the price shouldve dropped when the vinyl market collapsed??

I didn't say that.

Look what do you charge £150? Well so does Dave or Dom and there much more accomplished than you will ever be and have a greater skill level than you. So why should you charge the same. Its like paying Robbie Savage £200k a week when you could get ronaldo instead. Like any business the wage should vary on skill level

Yes you did say that. It's down to the label who sign the track to do sufficent marketing. So therefore the labels fault. End of the day if i had a track engineered by the almighty eufex then i would expect it to sell. That's what i'm paying you for!

Pat your little jabs seriosly dont bother me mate  its quite pathetic really and old news, just making yourself look like an idiot and its just your opinion, ive got people across the world as far as new zealand that are into my music for starters... but this isnt even about me so back to the original topic, so there you go you just said that dom and dave charge £150 so why were you moaning that it should be lower than that??

It's just honesty mate! You really think i care if it make's me look jealous! Well i can tell you mate i aint or will never be jealous of you. I say what i think. I'm not trying or was ever trying to 'make it' in hardhouse. I made it because i love hardhouse

My orignal moaning was because of the fact that engineer's see fit to give a discount rate when the diary is emptying.

I think people have to look at why the sales are low in the first place. What can the label do, but put them on the download sites, if they are any good people will buy them, if not well then they wont. Does anyone know what type of sales dave or dom get on there tracks. Really if there are low sales on tracks it can only mean people dont dig hardhouse, in my opinion since the change in sound a few years back.

People don't dig hardhouse. The only reason it's still goin is because engineer's opened there door's after it crashed! They knew they weren't getting there £1000 for a remix anymore so they have to make the money somewhere else! Hence the market being flooded with tracks that sound simular

Ye i agree there are far too many tracks that sound the same, More than likely the same few engineers are been used, which i dont think is a good thing as the people using these engineers just use there sound and everything just sounds the same.

I dont get why you keep having to throw in negative opinions about my music on here when i dont even bring myself up as a subject because you possibly think its denting myself as a producer  I dont care Pat, its not like i wait for you to cast your finger down to say whether im good or not and can carry on producing hard house. In regards to engineers im talking about all the pros that do it for a living, not me.

Don't flatter yourself mate. I don't care about you or your mediocre hardhouse. I've had many a run in on here your not the first and won't be the last. It's all my opinion and i will have it. Like i said i'm not after a dj set or a career so i can say what i think and not sniff around peoples arses

What do you mean dont flatter myself?.. mediocre hardhouse?? there you go your doing it again! and i didnt even ask for an opinion on my music 

I see what you saying there. There is a divide between a genuine passion and doing it for money, however I do think both work hand in hand as an engineer.

TBH, that's a pretty fair point. 

Well, personally speaking, no I don't pay tax, not that it's anyone's business at all... I don't have to because I still have SO much capital depreciation on the books that I will never go into the black. Everything is legit and goes through the books. So...because I don't have to pay tax does that mean I should charge less then everyone else? LMFAO.

And Denny, yes I AM reading your posts. Not sure if you're reading mine though m8. I'm not being wishy wahsy about this and seeing both sides. You're not seeming to understand costs.

There's a service that's offered for a price. That price is not only dictated by the customers but by overheads and the actual need of the service provider to be able to put food in his mouth and a roof over his head. If the service is unique or different from others it can attract a premium and no amount of bleating by customers is going to change that. You're not going to get Timo making you a track for £100. Does he give a shit you can only sell 20 copies? No. Why should he, it's not his problem if you can't market and sell the product, which if you can't means you've either got the wrong product or your in the wrong market, or both.


There's no point going to Rolls Royce and saying 'make me a car for £5000' because no matter what they'll say 'fuck off to Ford then, it wil cost £90,000 to manufacture your Rolls Royce, not a penny more not a penny less'
'Well that's no good you say' I'll give you £90,000 but I will only be able to sell it on for £10,000'
'Tough shit' says Rolls Royce. 'That's how much it will cost to manufacture, we only use premium materials, the latest technology, everything is hand built, the seats individually hand sewn etc and we only make 9% margin, you're in the wrong market'
'But I want a Rolls Royce'.....
'Buy a Rolls for £90000 or don't buy a Rolls, your choice m8'

But what would happen if Rolls did start providing Rolls Royce cars for £5000 just to please folks who don't know any better??
Yes you did say that. It's down to the label who sign the track to do sufficent marketing. So therefore the labels fault. End of the day if i had a track engineered by the almighty eufex then i would expect it to sell. That's what i'm paying you for!


1. Cut the personal jibes m8, if you can't have an adult discussion, fuck off
2. Read what I said AGAIN, I did NOT say that. You read into it what you like but I did NOT say that.
3. Having said that it IS the LABEL's job to market a track, always has been. It will not sell purely on producer name alone. No name will gurantee a label sales if it just puts it out there and puts no work in whatsoever on marketing, doesn't matter who's made it. My stuff on Nukz outsold most of the other stuff about 3 to 1. Why was that??? Because they weren't better tracks that's for sure.
4. If there's no market for a product, there's no market for a product. How good the product is has got fuck all to do with anything.
5. Skill has got fuck all to do with anything. It's supply and demand, nothing else.

For me. Hardhouse needs as much promotion as it can get. Problem is the age appeal. Most people who are into it, seems to be within 20 - 35 yrs old that like with nathan hardhouse. That's not enough. (It needs to be appealing to people around 18 - 45 at least (or older, no offence ) . You know why, its because it's too focused on sound quality rather than the actual ideas and hook it needs. Plus it's too advanced and techincal for most listeners. That's my view anyways.

I'am having an adult conversation. If i don't agree on what is said i will say so. So if you don't like that you fuck off. It wasn't a personal jibe. It was a reply to your god like rant