For the science heads and spiritualists alike :)

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Its mirroring Niel, its not even a self cognizant, researched opinion, its the mirror opinion of a general and given understanding within the corporate world of logical development. If you asked Mike a succinct question about any religious/spiritual point he would have no internal comprehension and as such will rattle off a pre-voiced conditioned opinion.  Mike and his like have never studied any of the varying understandings of existance and has only a single track of 'educated' theory to opine from, his research about anything outside of his view is a google search for:  '.......... debunked' and as such he will always find what he is looking for and will never come to an understanding of what he argues against and that is why it can never be a plausible debate.

I dont care anymore myself, after years of questioning. I wake up in the morning and feel gratefull because the Robin is chirping outside my door in glee for the wee bit of bread I left out for it or I see the happiness in my kids faces when we have a good family moment. I dont care wether it was a random bang or a created bang. All theories can go fuck themselves for a bit I recon.

You got teh buttsore coz your happy tree friends are just frauds ...

Awww

First it's mooshoo saying that spiritaulity has special powers to be unsciencable, and then you declare me incapable of possibly comprehending this nonsense because I went to school and learnt maths and science and stuff ...

That's a fantastic opinion

The fact is , you guys believe any old shit from any old idiots, when as you have clearly show, it's simple to check google to find out how REAL and accurate their research really is .... the fact that you STILL cling to this bullshit goes further for proving what a bunch of morons you all are than I or any any of the other realists on BT ever could.

 

 

 

 

I sid THAT did I?

Clearly my schooling would form part of the "corporate world of logical development" as it's the only place I ever could have obtained my "single track of 'educated' theory etc ...

However, DO YOU or DO YOU NOT believe the idiot for whom this thread was created, with no credentials what so ever and absolutely ZERO peer reviewed papers to his name after 20 years,  even though he claims to, do you believe he's cracked the meaning of life Jakedy Jake?

Or are you suffering the same 'Clingyness' as the other two fairy chasers in this thread?

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Gotta respect the staunch faith of the athiestic community. I wish I had such a surity, would be so much easier.

In a sense atheists are similar to religious people. Saying there is definitely no God is almost as daft as saying there definitely is one. The trick is not to think of God in a religious sense, but instead take it for what it actually means - "Creator." Something may well have created us. Perhaps it was some sort of mystical higher power, perhaps we are an alien experiment, perhaps we are stardust, or maybe the Earth itself is our God, or maybe we evolved from microscopic bacteria... Who knows? The answer: Nobody, not even atheists. religion and the idea of a creator are two very different things, and also, what created the universe may not have created us.

Read Śrīmad Bhāgavatam .

 All of the cosmos and all of the actions of mind, ego and soul are adressed, better than any other scripture I have read and better than science can touch. You wont read past the first page though probably as all the respectfull obiesences can be a bit Caine begat Jesus. But if you take all that as love then maybe you will.  btw: I agree with your first sentance there, its all faith for those that need the security of it, same thing.

May I interject?

I don't agree. Athiest I may be, I don't consider FACT there is NO god, or that FACT that the big bang theory (what exactly is that again) happened preceisely as has been explained in laymans terms to us plebbs ....  You lot always seem to put the word FACT into our mouths ... stating that our science is announcing FACTs ... The truth is, science is about proability ... plain and simple. You test your hypothesis until the probability of it being true enough to be called a fact, is proven beyond reasonable doubt and subbmitted to ones peers for close examination, retesting and ultimately agreement by the scientific community.

This argument that athiesm is a belief system in itself is used constantly by "believers" to try and quantify something that is at odds with their own core beliefs ... but its flawed.

If someone chooses to believe in unicorns ... why should someone who does not, based on the evidence that no unicorns have ever been proven, have to carry the label of a "unicorn non believer"? A lack of theism is exaclty the same. You can repeat your babbling on the subect as much as you like, but it won't change the truth about it I'm afraid. You will argue than my "staunch surity" is a kind of belief system, in fact that's exatly what you said Jake, however, it's not. How is saying that because there is little or no evidence that God, unicorns, santa,  spirits etc, and from that having drawn the understanding that even though one day proof may emerge I find it very very unlikely ... how does that become a belief system? lets face it ... it isn't. It doesn't give any security. It doesn't try explain or niceify what happens when we die etc ... it's just an understanding. that's all.

No problem bruv ...

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Gotta respect the staunch faith of the athiestic community. I wish I had such a surity, would be so much easier.

In a sense atheists are similar to religious people. Saying there is definitely no God is almost as daft as saying there definitely is one. The trick is not to think of God in a religious sense, but instead take it for what it actually means - "Creator." Something may well have created us. Perhaps it was some sort of mystical higher power, perhaps we are an alien experiment, perhaps we are stardust, or maybe the Earth itself is our God, or maybe we evolved from microscopic bacteria... Who knows? The answer: Nobody, not even atheists. religion and the idea of a creator are two very different things, and also, what created the universe may not have created us.

Read Śrīmad Bhāgavatam .

 All of the cosmos and all of the actions of mind, ego and soul are adressed, better than any other scripture I have read and better than science can touch. You wont read past the first page though probably as all the respectfull obiesences can be a bit Caine begat Jesus. But if you take all that as love then maybe you will.  btw: I agree with your first sentance there, its all faith for those that need the security of it, same thing.

 

May I interject?

I don't agree. Athiest I may be, I don't consider FACT there is NO god, or that FACT that the big bang theory (what exactly is that again) happened preceisely as has been explained in laymans terms to us plebbs ....  You lot always seem to put the word FACT into our mouths ... stating that our science is announcing FACTs ... The truth is, science is about proability ... plain and simple. You test your hypothesis until the probability of it being true enough to be called a fact, is proven beyond reasonable doubt and subbmitted to ones peers for close examination, retesting and ultimately agreement by the scientific community.

 

This argument that athiesm is a belief system in itself is used constantly by "believers" to try and quantify something that is at odds with their own core beliefs ... but its flawed.

If someone chooses to believe in unicorns ... why should someone who does not, based on the evidence that no unicorns have ever been proven, have to carry the label of a "unicorn non believer"? A lack of theism is exaclty the same. You can repeat your babbling on the subect as much as you like, but it won't change the truth about it I'm afraid. You will argue than my "staunch surity" is a kind of belief system, in fact that's exatly what you said Jake, however, it's not. How is saying that because there is little or no evidence that God, unicorns, santa,  spirits etc, and from that having drawn the understanding that even though one day proof may emerge I find it very very unlikely ... how does that become a belief system? lets face it ... it isn't. It doesn't give any security. It doesn't try explain or niceify what happens when we die etc ... it's just an understanding. that's all.

 

 

I totally agree with what you are saying. Atheism isn't a belief system at all, but they do believe in an ideology, and that ideology is that there is no God. You can't say this for definite. but I do take back what I said about atheists being nearly as daft as religious people, they aren't. 

Atheism is just slightly naive and the opinion is often formed from the viewpoint of "all religion is bollocks and I don't believe any of that shit." which I myself agree with. But as I have stated, the possibility of a creator and the medieval fairytale magic bullshit that is religion are two completely different things. Realising this and accepting we know fuck all and accepting the fact that you can't comment on any side of the "is there a God" debate with any authority is in my opinion, the best way to look at things. 

and what do you mean "you lot" by the way Mike? Are you implying that you are more intelligent than anyone on this board because you have a broader knowledge of science? I thoroughly believe in scientific progress and I believe that it can help to credit logical, plausible theories. But I simply do not believe it can prove beyond a reasonable doubt exactly what happened six billion years ago. And I do understand that science works in a democratic way and also that it redefines and re-examines its findings until it releases anything as a "fact." 

Ah, debate ... that's why we're here after all ...

Athiesm in its' strictest sense says - THERE IS NO GOD.

Agnostic says - No idea what it is, but, there most likely was some kind of creator/s we don't understand it (and I'll probably not waste too much time trying to either)

An Agnostic Athiest says - There is no evidence to date of God / Creator, And given our current understanding of the universe there is no requirement for a creattor, that doesn't mean one doesn't exist ... however , the possiblity is really really small ... I'll keep the door open, but only a tiny amount.

Even richard Dawkins considers himself an "Agnostic Athiest" ... I think there are really very few real athiests about ... Because even science deals with possibilties not facts ...

With regards to the "You Lot" statement, taken out of context I use it to refer to the general bunch of misfist who are generally anti establishment, spiritual this and that , "They're out to get me", UFO  / ORB hunting  conspiracy nut jobs ... etc ... nothing to do with intelligence - although I do question the intelligence of supporting blindly the words of someone who makes grand statements and after 20 years can't back them up with any degree of confidnce ... Heck, might as well be a religion? innit?

I myself can't claim to be more intelligent, even with my understanding of sciece as I'm no more educated inthe matter than anyone who finished high school. I may have read books on the subject for entertainment ove rthe years, but nothing more.

The big bang is said to have take place at least 13 and a half billion years ago ... not 6.

Certain theories about the event have been proven, however, as you're right to point out there isn't enough information to complete the picture. Maybe we'll never find out ... But with each technology step we find out more and more ... Like what's going on at the LHC at present ... all filling in pieces of the puzzle ... who knows what we'll know 100 years from now?