Prof Brian Cox Explains....

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I think he's brilliant, knows his stuff so well and is well able to break it down and sum it up 

I bought one of his books tho and got lost 

He knows his physics, but he obviously knows fuck all about the Mayan calander.

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There are much more qualified people that have researched the calander for many years and probabaly understand it a lot more than he does though.  He's a physisist and any talk of human conciousness and time speeding up (which Is what I personally believe after reading many different articles by people that have researched it for years) is just 'woo woo' or whatever he calls it. He should stick to physics.

Wasn't that other self proclaimed expert on the other thread  a physicist .... or right .... that one had no credentials whatsoever and couldn't back up any of his theories after 20 years with not a single papaer reviewed by a single scientific journal ...

It seems anyone with any credibilty whatsover is just rubbish in your books, and anyone who can say anything without backing it up, as long as it's supports you alternative thinking strategy is as you put it "much more qualified" ....

You're right he should stick to physics ... it's a real science. it takes REAL credibility. It's reality. something you're very detached from ... watch out ... another light in the sky ... quick ...get you camera ... missed it ... there's always tomorrow night ....

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There are much more qualified people that have researched the calander for many years and probabaly understand it a lot more than he does though.  He's a physisist and any talk of human conciousness and time speeding up (which Is what I personally believe after reading many different articles by people that have researched it for years) is just 'woo woo' or whatever he calls it. He should stick to physics.

Wasn't that other self proclaimed expert on the other thread  a physicist .... or right .... that one had no credentials whatsoever and couldn't back up any of his theories after 20 years with not a single papaer reviewed by a single scientific journal ...

It seems anyone with any credibilty whatsover is just rubbish in your books, and anyone who can say anything without backing it up, as long as it's supports you alternative thinking strategy is as you put it "much more qualified" ....

 

You're right he should stick to physics ... it's a real science. it takes REAL credibility. It's reality. something you're very detached from ... watch out ... another light in the sky ... quick ...get you camera ... missed it ... there's always tomorrow night ....

 

 

Whatchu talkin bout willis

Personally I think brian cox is great, he does a wicked job of explaining scientific theories in a way that is easy to understand, but like most left brain dominated physisists he dismisses any concept of a 'spiritual' nature as woo woo, thats his opinion, and thats fine, but as I have said before to dismiss 'spiritual' concepts just because science hasnt 'proved' it yet is ignorant and arrogant.

I remember watching 'A night with the stars' over xmas with brian cox, and he picked up a diamond and held it in his hands, he said that as the crystal heated up, every other particle in the entire universe had to change so as not to be in the same 'energetic space', so in a very real way everything in the universe is connected, and what happens in one part affects all the rest. Well correct me if Im wrong, but people (of a more spiritual nature) have been saying that exact same thing for ages. Now 'science' has caught up and is saying the same thing. but what is the difference in views there, there isnt one, science and spirituality are saying the same thing, its just spirituality has been saying it for a lot longer!

I would also say that there have been many scientific experiments that prove the existence of many spiritual concepts, but they have recieved no publicity, and if you look into it enough you can understand why they have no publicity. a good start is to read this

but you wont, you'll go on google, you'll type in 'David Wilcock debunked' or something, you'll find what your looking for, and you'll come back with 'what a load of shit'. cos thats how you roll.

whilst on the subject of Wilcock, some of you may find this very interesting, its very long and is probably equivalent to reading a book, but its defo worth a read.

http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1023-financial-tyranny

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There are much more qualified people that have researched the calander for many years and probabaly understand it a lot more than he does though.  He's a physisist and any talk of human conciousness and time speeding up (which Is what I personally believe after reading many different articles by people that have researched it for years) is just 'woo woo' or whatever he calls it. He should stick to physics.

Im hoping that when 2012 ends and nothing happens people like you and all those who believe into this mayan bullshit will shut the fuck up. But you wont. You will find some other date and say that the world will end again just like infamous Harold Camping. I will make sure to dig out this thread at the end of the year and im gonna expose you just like i exposed Jake here.

Let me just get this straight; I dont believe for one second that on 21st December this year, some magical event is gonna happen that changes everything, I believe that whatever the Mayans, Hopis and other cultures are talking about it is a gradual thing that has been happening for a few years, and will continue to happen after 2012. As far as Im concerned it is all to do with a change in human conciousness, and will result in all the corporate bullshit that has become so 'important' in our lives dropping away. All we need to do is look at the Occupy movement to see that something is happening, why now, what has caused it. And isnt funny that we were told many years ago that this kind of stuff was gonna happen at this time. coincidence, I dont think so.

Do you still follow the work of Dr Emoto mate, I remember a while ago you saying if people dont understand the relationship between quantum physics and spirituality then why does water form beautiful crystals when people pray to it. You probably dont remember,

http://www.bangingtunes.com/forum/topic/t140586/p2056423/#2056423/searchspirituality/

Hahaha, reading that thread back , 2 years ago I thought the 'C' in E=MC2 was 'conciousness' dear oh dear

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There are much more qualified people that have researched the calander for many years and probabaly understand it a lot more than he does though.  He's a physisist and any talk of human conciousness and time speeding up (which Is what I personally believe after reading many different articles by people that have researched it for years) is just 'woo woo' or whatever he calls it. He should stick to physics.

Wasn't that other self proclaimed expert on the other thread  a physicist .... or right .... that one had no credentials whatsoever and couldn't back up any of his theories after 20 years with not a single papaer reviewed by a single scientific journal ...

It seems anyone with any credibilty whatsover is just rubbish in your books, and anyone who can say anything without backing it up, as long as it's supports you alternative thinking strategy is as you put it "much more qualified" ....

 

You're right he should stick to physics ... it's a real science. it takes REAL credibility. It's reality. something you're very detached from ... watch out ... another light in the sky ... quick ...get you camera ... missed it ... there's always tomorrow night ....

 

 

Whatchu talkin bout willis

 

Personally I think brian cox is great, he does a wicked job of explaining scientific theories in a way that is easy to understand, but like most left brain dominated physisists he dismisses any concept of a 'spiritual' nature as woo woo, thats his opinion, and thats fine, but as I have said before to dismiss 'spiritual' concepts just because science hasnt 'proved' it yet is ignorant and arrogant.

 

I remember watching 'A night with the stars' over xmas with brian cox, and he picked up a diamond and held it in his hands, he said that as the crystal heated up, every other particle in the entire universe had to change so as not to be in the same 'energetic space', so in a very real way everything in the universe is connected, and what happens in one part affects all the rest. Well correct me if Im wrong, but people (of a more spiritual nature) have been saying that exact same thing for ages. Now 'science' has caught up and is saying the same thing. but what is the difference in views there, there isnt one, science and spirituality are saying the same thing, its just spirituality has been saying it for a lot longer!

 

I would also say that there have been many scientific experiments that prove the existence of many spiritual concepts, but they have recieved no publicity, and if you look into it enough you can understand why they have no publicity. a good start is to read this

 

but you wont, you'll go on google, you'll type in 'David Wilcock debunked' or something, you'll find what your looking for, and you'll come back with 'what a load of shit'. cos thats how you roll.

 

whilst on the subject of Wilcock, some of you may find this very interesting, its very long and is probably equivalent to reading a book, but its defo worth a read.

 

http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1023-financial-tyranny

 

There you go again trying with all your might to attach anything sciencey to  spirituality to give it more credence ...

The reason why they have NO publicity is because they're NOT scientific, they neither prove nor disprove anything because the subject is almost always unfalsifiable, or in juju speak you understand - it's unscienceable ...

Just like you can't disprove the existance this stuff, you can't disprove the existance of santa claus. Having a belief system based on NOT being able to disprove the existance of something is, and you're a perfect example of this, believing every single thing you could possibly imagine.

Throw in some drugs and some money making spirituality books and you got yourself a mini religion

Now, before you believe in something so strongly as to adopt it as your actual belief system ... shouldn't you at least question it first to make sure it's legit?

in 5 seconds I proved beyond ALL reasonable doubt that that last clown with his fractals and peer reviewed magical physics papers was nothing but a fraud.

But no matter what anyone says, you still believe it. There is nothing in this world that could possibly prove to you that anything in your imagination is potentially wrong ... so if that didn't work there is no point me trying again with this author. You could do it yourself ... you speak of scientific arrogance but you're living proof the that the religious stance of  "We're right and if you go against us we'll burn you and your family at the stake" arrogance that ruled the world for centuries is alive and well and as stupid as ever.  That my friend is arrogance.

which facts were those? That the mayans had a different base counting system, or that if you believe the world ends/changes /reborns etc then you're a twat?

As for attaching science to spiritualism ... I love how short sighted Mr "C" for conciousnmess has decided, that that having heard a very obtuse version of the exclusion principle which has been dumbed down completely for the wider audience, to attach this obtusely loose discription as the scientific facts he's been looking for to prove the existance of his oneness with everything.

If this is the very science that proves all things are connected, are we happy then that this emperical scientific evidence does away with the need for a soul, for the need of conciousness, for the need of telepathy and all other nonsense associated with the "we're all one" theories as it proves without a shadow of a doubt that in fact none of those things are neccessary ... ? Nope? Didn't think so ....

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A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James

And when the truth does eventually come out, Mike is gonna be one of the people so blown away, so utterly bewildered by whats taking place, so confused it will probably put him in a catatonic, almost comatosed state. but dont worry Mike, we'll be here for you.

Mate, watch the film Eric the Viking(if you havnt already). Terry Gilliam at his best but pay particular atention to the Priest, its Mike and his like to a tee.

On the Download

Mike - Hold on tight mate, I believe your in for the ride of your life soon

- OMFG  - if we're going to play the quote game, let's ask one of you heros:

 “Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.”

Just becuase millions of people worship a deity of some sort, doesn't mean there is one ... and just because you and a few pot head conspiracy nuts think we're all connected in a sciency but spiritual kinda way ... doesn't mean we are

And with reference to your second quote: The ultimate arrogance is knowing a huge amout about something and rejecting it completely because it doesn't fit in with what you were led to believe, and so carry on down a path of ridiculing everything that's real in favour of something that you just made up in your mind as real.

I don't think he said that because they were base 20 there wasn't an end date? I didn't hear him say that?

Perhaps he was intimating that because it was base20 our understanding of when that date might be is completely wrong ...  and even if it were correct no one knows, and he didn't guess either, what exactly is supposed to happen?

I would argue one would need to be able to count to make a calander ... not the other way round? Could you explain what you meant?

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A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James

And when the truth does eventually come out, Mike is gonna be one of the people so blown away, so utterly bewildered by whats taking place, so confused it will probably put him in a catatonic, almost comatosed state. but dont worry Mike, we'll be here for you.

Mate, watch the film Eric the Viking(if you havnt already). Terry Gilliam at his best but pay particular atention to the Priest, its Mike and his like to a tee.

On the Download

 

Mike - Hold on tight mate, I believe your in for the ride of your life soon

The thing is, if it's real and it happens, then I'm totally happy with that ... if we prove the existance of all this stuff, god, the soul, spirits etc , then great ... bring it on ... new sciences,  new advances , intergalactic travel, interdimesional communication .... I'm all for it.

But where does that leave you when, having spent your entire live mulling over all this spirituality mumbo jumbo, and only to find that all or at least most of it was just the inane imagination of some drugged up hippies ... and that all you're left with when you die is nothing but the dirt on your back ... ? You'd have wasted your entire life believing a lie. What a disappointment.

I prefer a little more ofa convincing argument to base my belief system on than those currently in circulation ... 

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In reply to

A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James

And when the truth does eventually come out, Mike is gonna be one of the people so blown away, so utterly bewildered by whats taking place, so confused it will probably put him in a catatonic, almost comatosed state. but dont worry Mike, we'll be here for you.

Mate, watch the film Eric the Viking(if you havnt already). Terry Gilliam at his best but pay particular atention to the Priest, its Mike and his like to a tee.

On the Download

 

Mike - Hold on tight mate, I believe your in for the ride of your life soon

The thing is, if it's real and it happens, then I'm totally happy with that ... if we prove the existance of all this stuff, god, the soul, spirits etc , then great ... bring it on ... new sciences,  new advances , intergalactic travel, interdimesional communication .... I'm all for it.

 

But where does that leave you when, having spent your entire live mulling over all this spirituality mumbo jumbo, and only to find that all or at least most of it was just the inane imagination of some drugged up hippies ... and that all you're left with when you die is nothing but the dirt on your back ... ? You'd have wasted your entire life believing a lie. What a disappointment.

 

I prefer a little more ofa convincing argument to base my belief system on than those currently in circulation ... 

 

The thing is Mike, as I have tried explaining to you before, is that there has been experiments done that indicate that lots of the things you just mentioned might exist, I could list and try to explain them all but I really cant be arsed, its just you many others choose to ignore them because they dont fit in with the norm.

Look at what they are trying to look for with the Large Hadron Collider though, the 'GOD' particle, oh the Irony

As Ive said, read this book, and follow this link http://www.divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/1023-financial-tyranny

 and there is all the evidence you need, but all you'll do is google the author for the sole purpose of debunking him and saying he's just a mad head out to make money from gullible people like myself. Well thats bullshit.

but many if not all scientifc 'theories' including einstiens theory of relativety have never really proven anything either, they are just that, theories. Dont forget that recently scientists at CERN have measured neutrinos moving faster than the speed of light, which is supposed to be impossible, and already its written off as a mistake and probabaly nothing (maybe its a result  of time speeding up like the Mayans said would happen, something to consider).  So how are these experiments any different, surely they should be further investigated and not simply ridiculed just because they go against pretty much everything we think is true, thats an arrogant attitude, especially when we have so many records from thousands of years ago such as the sumerian clay tablets, mayan ruins, egyptian pyramids pyramids that tell us things like this that we now classify as myth! We once thought that everything was made of atoms and that you couldnt get anyting smaller, but then we discovered that atoms were made of loads of other stuff, and now we've got multi billion dollar particle acceleratrs looking for a god particle! All the pieces will fall together soon.

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A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James

And when the truth does eventually come out, Mike is gonna be one of the people so blown away, so utterly bewildered by whats taking place, so confused it will probably put him in a catatonic, almost comatosed state. but dont worry Mike, we'll be here for you.

Mate, watch the film Eric the Viking(if you havnt already). Terry Gilliam at his best but pay particular atention to the Priest, its Mike and his like to a tee.

On the Download

 

Mike - Hold on tight mate, I believe your in for the ride of your life soon

The thing is, if it's real and it happens, then I'm totally happy with that ... if we prove the existance of all this stuff, god, the soul, spirits etc , then great ... bring it on ... new sciences,  new advances , intergalactic travel, interdimesional communication .... I'm all for it.

 

But where does that leave you when, having spent your entire live mulling over all this spirituality mumbo jumbo, and only to find that all or at least most of it was just the inane imagination of some drugged up hippies ... and that all you're left with when you die is nothing but the dirt on your back ... ? You'd have wasted your entire life believing a lie. What a disappointment.

 

I prefer a little more ofa convincing argument to base my belief system on than those currently in circulation ... 

 

The thing is Mike, as I have tried explaining to you before, is that there has been experiments done that indicate that lots of the things you just mentioned might exist, I could list and try to explain them all but I really cant be arsed, its just you many others choose to ignore them because they dont fit in with the norm.

 

Look at what they are trying to look for with the Large Hadron Collider though, the 'GOD' particle, oh the Irony

You do realize that "God" particle has nothing to do with God?

It completely depends on what your opinion of god is. If you think its a guy on a cloud from any kind of religion then no, its fuck all to do with that, if you think its the all pervading force of energy that everything in the universe is made out of, then yeah, damn right. Thats what they're looking for isnt it, a particle that pervades all others and all other particles wouldnt even be able to exist if the 'higgs boson' aka 'god particle' didnt exist. Yeah that sounds pretty much exactly like the god I believe in; the energy that makes everything. Why the fuck do you think they nick named it the 'god' particle.

Norris mate, what planet do you live on really?

Seriously mate, have you ever heard of the term,  " Metophor"?

The term "God Particle" refers the the elusiveness of the Higgs Boson, rather than, as you have decided, to literally mean it is the search for God.

Not only that but if you'd been keeping up to date on the matter, the recon they have finally narrowed the search down to a specific energy level and are expecting to have formal results published with the discovery of the higgs boson.

It's NOT the search for God. It's NOT some misguided spirituality project. You have simply taken literally a nonsense term that is only repeated by the media and not anyone with any sort of respectability towards the project, and once again tried to attach its meaning to that of your own.

Sorry mate, but that's even funnier than your "C" for conciousness ommission ...

Of course he didn't say how and why the end date was worked out because he's alluding to the fact that no one has a clue, so believing in 2012 doomsday predictions is pointless ... the reference to the base 20 system is more to do with showing that we know even less about them than we think so why are we trying to "predict" nonese about what their calendar may or may not have meant without a firm understanding?

I don't really know what you mean in your last paragraph? Are you making this stuff up?

Of course I know its not the search for god, its just ironic that they are calling it, metaphorically or whatever, the god particle.  It wasnt a difficult point to grasp, but yet again you try to to turn it round so it sounds stupid. You understood my point Mike, your just being ignorant and arrogant. again.

No NO ... you were being quite Dumb, Mr C for conciousness.

Its not ironic its simply a a comparison. How silly is that.

How is pointing out that ignorant and arrogant?

Micheal Talbot, author of 'The Holographic Universe' wrote that he once witnessed a proffesional hypnotist hypnotise a man into believeing that he couldnt see his own daughter. He then got the daughter to stand in front of her hypnotised father and pulled out a watch which had been engraved, the owner of the watch was unknown to everyone in the room. He pushed the watch against the girls back, sort of cupped in his hands and asked the hypnotised man what the object was, the man replied that it was a watch, and proceeded to read the engraving perfectly, the watch was passed around the room to show the audience that he had read it correctly. His hypnotised brain saw through the 'solid matter' that was his daughter, as if she wasnt even there.

How do we all know that we arent under some sort of 'mass hypnosis', and that we can only see and hear the things that at this moment in time we are meant to see and hear, or 'allowed' to see and hear, or 'choose' to see and hear. A hypnotised person doesnt realise they are hypnotised, so maybe we dont either....

Norris, you fail to see how your misguided personal opinion of science is hampering your judgment and in effect blinding you from some very simple truths.

First off - Science can't pick and choose what IS and ISNT science. The premise is simple. Make a prediction and by testing/experimentation either prove or disprove your theory. When you're happy your theory holds up to your own rigourous tests, present your finding for others to validate it.

There's nothing in there about whether or not you are religious / spiritual, and there's nothing in there about whether or not you theory or your experiment is trying to prove or disprove something extravagent or down right wierd.

You talk about these "other" experiments as if they aren't science - but you're wrong. If someone "says" they can shine a green lazer into some salamander eggs and turn them into frogs, great ... But Norris, you have to ask, WHY can't anyone else repeat this process? it's at that point is isn't science anymore - science doesn't decide that ... the person making the claims decides it. If it can't be validated/repeated by others it is just one person saying something that no one else can verify ... it lacks credibility. It lacks what is important. And that is why it is ignored, or in some cases ridiculed ... Do you see why I compare things to Unicorns all the time ... because if you can prove unicorns exist you sure as hell should be sure yourself ...

You made reference to the experiment at CERN regarding the Neutrinos. Can you see just how nervous the people releasing the results are ... because they know the whole world is watching and that the results are incredible. Can you see they're released ALL their data to the wider audience and specifically asked the only two other teams in the world who can repeat the test to start attempts as soon as possible? That is science. it's progress. Something new, and the data is open for all to see.

It's not some author of a book who "says" this or that"and can't repeat it when anyone's looking ... can you see the difference?

The Salamander Frog experiments WERE repeated by other scientists Mike! And the same results were recorded!

Russian researcher v. budakovski conducted similar experiments with raspberry plants, using lasers fired through healthy plants into plants with tumours, and the tumour ridden plants transformed into perfectly health plants.

You're missing the point norris ... I'm not claiming they were never carried out and I'm not claiming they weren't repeated.

There MUST be a reason why it's not widely recognised ... there is very little information about this other than on sites like "Devine Cosmos" - there's not even a wiki page regarding this stuff ... strange don't you think?

It doesn't even sound like a very difficult experiment to reproduce ... SO WHY !!!!

You don't ever seem to be concerned with this?

In January 2011, Noble Prize winning biologist Luc Montagnier announced that he had transferred a piece of bacterial DNA into a sealed test tube with nothing more than water inside. The water in the test tube rearranged into an exact duplicate of the DNA, which was floating in test tube next to it. For this to work the DNA had to be greatly diluted and a weak electromagnetic field of seven hertz had to be applied. After 18 hours some of the water molecules in the test tube had transformed into perfect DNA molecules. The finding were reported on http://news.techworld.com/personal-tech/3256631/dna-molecules-can-teleport-nobel-prize-winner-claims/

Transforming water into DNA using an electromagnetic field, an energetic process, impossible isnt it, not according to a Noble Prize winning biologist.

I admit that the experiments need to be repeated and confirmed, as you say, that is science, but what happens to Darwins Theory of evolution if this is true, and it looks like it is. Most people dont even want to consider it, but it has to be considered, cos experiments seem to have proved it, thats science isnt it.

But I'll believe it when it's replicated by a skeptics. Multiple times.

Oh and heres some other comments about the great Luc Montagnier.

He has clearly entered his dotage, its sad how often it occurs.

Structured water would long ago have been uncovered by:
dilution measurements,
viscosity measurements,
NMR spectroscopy.
Structuring of water would have significant impacts on all these observables.

Recycled waste water would really be nasty as well as the effects on
pharmacology and biochemical dosing.

I would like to know how much shark pee (okay, excretions) are found in this sample. By my rough calculations, it's been diluted more than the DNA has, but I'm interested, more generally, in how much of an effect shark pee has on me when I drink tap water. That seems like a serious issue. Can this also be detected?
Stupid homeopathy.
Also, The Weekly World News actually had something resembling the truth in it?! I am going to stop worrying about toxic water and resume worrying about the goat-headed baby born on the roller coaster that I swear was a real headline when I was a kid.

Thats totally fair enough.

There's enough haters of the theory of evolution to jump for joy at trying to reproduce tests like this .... why aren't they lining up ... it's also not a very hard test to reproduce?

Also, how is this imformation being supresed fro mthe western worl ... or anywawhere for that matter ... it's all over the interwebs and even the new scientist magasine lol ?

Anyone should be able to reproduce this right - the article you posted is also over a year old?

It is being supressed, the info is on the interwebs but why is it not in the news, why is it only obscure sites that its mentioned on (other than Luc Monte whatevers experiments.)

The thing is, unfortunately to understand fully why this kind of information is supressed, you have to go into the whole spiritual side of things. it makes no sense at all why these expermiments and others like them dont really recieve the public recognition they really deserve if you think of it in a purely scientific way. but quite a few of these experiments point to the fact that something much more is going on, that we didnt just evolve from single cell organsims, that using our consious minds, we can influence the underlying energy field (the higgs field, source field or whatever you want to call it), thus by the power of our thoughts and emotions we create our own reality. All this will seem like woo woo hocus pocus bullshit to you, and dont get me wrong I completely understand why. However in my opinion only by taking into consideration both spiritual and scientific aspects of reality can we really understand the whole picture.

The powers that be really dont want you know exactly how much power you possess, otherwise, they wouldnt be the powers that be, so we only recieve the information they want us to recieve, so we keep relying on them to live our day to day lives. However, things are starting to change, truth is starting to come out.

I completely understand the point of view you have Mike, believe me I was once exactly the same.

I know from your point of view this is all conspiracy theory bullshit, but I personally have read far to much stuff that all makes so much sense to me as an individual, and all seems to validate all the things I now believe. maybe if you had read the things I have read you would end up with the same opinion, maybe not. I dont know whos right and whos wrong, only time will tell.

To be honest Ive never really looked properly into the work of Carl Jung, Ive heard his name in loads of things Ive read (I think Eckartt Tolle talks about him in 'the power of now'), but havnet really checked him out in any detail, maybe I should.....

basically Mike, the majority of the 'juicy' experiments were done in Russia, that means they are all in Russian, so you need to get westerners that understand russian to translate them for a start, or vice versa. If this kind of information is supressed, then this could prove more difficult than it should be. luckily a handful of the experiments and results have been translated, especially the work of Peter Gariev.

Dude, pretty much everything Ive read is a case of 'WTF' but the point is I dont dismiss it just because it hasnt been proved by western science yet. All the information goes into the 'to be considered' part if my brain. Its all different aspects and points of view on reality that simply have to be considered in the grand scheme of things.

The problem with Mikes approach is that until it has been proved then its not worth considering, at least thats what I can gather from his comments. This limits your understanding of the world in my opinion. There would have been a time when someone was saying 'I have discovered electricity, it will produce light and energy for the whole world, and will enable us to do things we have never done before in the history of the human race', I bet in their time they came across as a complete nutcase.

The thing is Norris, when the guy who invesnted electricity did so ... he produced working evidence that he had done so and there all the skeptics had a chance to tinker about with it and be amazed with the new tech ...

that's not a fair comparison to the kind of things you've been talking about. There is just a paper or report of an experiment. There's no solid peer review or repeatability ... I don't believe in any western power supression concpiracy type thing going on ... if the info is on the web then anyone can get hold of it. The one dude you mentioned is supposed to be a Nobel prize winner and has an article in a very popular western scientific magasine? I really don't think it's supression that's to blame ... I see it as credibility.