Question of Voting

 
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4 years ago
L - K - i
loki Pic4781 Posts
Viet Nam
Ive got a mate in Boston who says he isnt going to vote . . . because he "is a journalist and must remain unbiased" . . . basically not affecting the outcome.  Even when he hates Bush.  OK, so that's 1 vote out the window - but as such internationally scrutinised as the upcoming election is, I think it's pretty much a waste considering how tight the various "polls" are sitting.  And more to an international standpoint, you either want Bush to win . .. or not (not so much a matter of Pro-Kerry).

As citizens of democracy (not just US or UK), I think we should take heed that voting should compulsory (like Australia?) . . .it's more a gift which gives you to the right of say that has just been taken for granted over the years.  you can argue it takes away your right to throw away ur vote -  Im not talking jail sentences for those that dont, but at least VOTE.  Even if it's for someone you know aint gonna get into power.   In example of the US, it's either Bush or Kerry who's gonna win . . . not Nader or anyone else. . . but at least choose someone so that you cannot complain about whoever's next in power because you waived your right for choice!

And as said before, I dont think Ive met, or even heard of, anyone who's "indifferent" to Bush . . . so you're either for him, or not - it's too close for call (again munted).   No anti-bush statements, if you want him to win, vote him. . .  if u dont like him and cant be assed to vote - blame yourself, and others like u,

And as for the upcoming UK elections, dont just sit home and "hope" for a certain party to win your local constituent - given there's so many lazy (and idiotic) dumbasses around this part of town, my 1 vote could count as much more than originally thought!

I know people sometimes dont go to vote because it's "whats the point" . . . but sometimes you probably wont know the point until your government does something you seriously have a problem with.   Or even out of protest because of lack of suitable candidates - in which case, if those evils are gonna win, pick the lesser of the two!

FFS, for the love of your own country - VOTE ! angry

PS.  Please dont vote for Bush laughing
4 years ago
Jobi
jobi Pic3625 Posts
USAAsheville once again
Music Style Glitchy snorbcore

Boston is in Massachusetts which is Kerry's homestate.  All of Massachusetts electoral vots will go to Kerry, that part of the election will not be close.  So, ine ssence, you friend's vote really won't matter one way or another.  I don't agree with him not voting.

What really sucks is that we use the electoral college system of voting, so it doesn't matter who gets the most votes.  What matters is that you need to get the most votes in certain states.  That sucks.  We should be using popular voting; the most votes wins, period.  Basically the outcome of this election depends on voting in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a few other states.

I already voted.  For Kerry.

4 years ago
Catjane
catjane Pic4435 Posts
EnglandBristol
Music Style Lots!
Good post, Loki thumbsup
4 years ago
Catjane
catjane Pic4435 Posts
EnglandBristol
Music Style Lots!
In reply to

Boston is in Massachusetts which is Kerry's homestate.  All of Massachusetts electoral vots will go to Kerry, that part of the election will not be close.  So, ine ssence, you friend's vote really won't matter one way or another.  I don't agree with him not voting.

What really sucks is that we use the electoral college system of voting, so it doesn't matter who gets the most votes.  What matters is that you need to get the most votes in certain states.  That sucks.  We should be using popular voting; the most votes wins, period.  Basically the outcome of this election depends on voting in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a few other states.

I already voted.  For Kerry.

Yeah mate ... proportional representation is what it SHOULD be about ... unfortunately for you, and for us, it ain't so.  Can't see the sense in the regional shite ... it sucks thumbsdown
4 years ago
L - K - i
loki Pic4781 Posts
Viet Nam
I have to admit, I didnt know Boston was in Kerry's homestate dunce

In the UK (and Im really sketchy about this), I think you need a certain "swing" of percentage of voters before one party (or independent) can supercede the previous holding party/person.  Basically, SNP's had the most number of votes in Scotland last election (to my memory), but onyl won a few seats in Parliament as a whole (not that I voted for them tho).

Is there a site which basically maps out the (near) definative states of the US which would vote for who (like a geographical map of the land split into different colours for different candidates) and those states which arent?

4 years ago
L - K - i
loki Pic4781 Posts
Viet Nam
Cheers doode thumbsup
4 years ago
Jellyfish
Jellyfish Pic4678 Posts
AustraliaAdelaide
Music Style slack
There is a strategy game floating around called The Political Machine where you run for President... I learnt a bit about the US electoral system from playing that laughing
4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.
4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada
In reply to
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.


who is not bush but most like bush. tosser

 

you guys need to get more choices and also to change your freekin' election system.... its crap.

4 years ago
b___s
bHS Pic161 Posts
USAnorthern california
Music Style rikeracky & hard rikeracky
IMO they are both douche bags and I can't really find the lesser of the 2 evils. Which is why I choose not to vote. No matter who gets elected they will end up doing enough stupid shit to piss everyone off in the endsmile
4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
In reply to
In reply to
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.


who is not bush but most like bush. tosser

 

you guys need to get more choices and also to change your freekin' election system.... its crap.

dud what more choices do you want in term of political parties (if that's what you meant)? i'm all for free speech but if you gonna say something negative then do explain the how/why you think so. anyone can put their foot in their mouth.
4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.


who is not bush but most like bush. tosser

 

you guys need to get more choices and also to change your freekin' election system.... its crap.

dud what more choices do you want in term of political parties (if that's what you meant)? i'm all for free speech but if you gonna say something negative then do explain the how/why you think so. anyone can put their foot in their mouth.


ok.... first off... you only really have 2 choices to vote for.  most countries have atleast 4.  jesus... even canada has 5 that can have a certain amount of power in canadian parliment.  especially now because we don't have a majority government.

 

second.... your voting system works basically like this (as far as i can tell) :

you vote within your riding for a slate of electors who are supposed to vote for the president in this case bush or kerry.

 

now... lets think about these two things....

there have been a number of times that the slate of electors has not voted for the candidate that they were pledged to.  on top of that there have been atleast 4 times that the elector's votes did not align themselves with the popular vote.... the most recent being your last election.

this system of voting eliminates the small ridings in each state that vote oposite of the rest of the state.  and thus eliminating the possibility of having a third party representation.  it also does not represent ALL of the american people's views.

 

 

so how 'bout i put my foot in your mouth biggrin

4 years ago
Jobi
jobi Pic3625 Posts
USAAsheville once again
Music Style Glitchy snorbcore
I think we need as much internation pressure as possible to change our voting system.  Because it's not something that's just going to get changed, it's in the constitution.
4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
In reply to
I think we need as much internation pressure as possible to change our voting system.  Because it's not something that's just going to get changed, it's in the constitution.

Bingo. I could't be more agree with on this one. Traditions, the constitutions, the system, ect...Now I must admit that is not a perfect one but it's what we have and it's a working one. Changing it is like opening a big can of worms (for the lack of a better phase).
4 years ago
Pearsall
530 Posts
United KingdomLondon
Music Style techno & electro

I think the reasoning behind the electoral college is somewhat sound. Because if we had a straight popular vote the candidates wouldn't go anywhere but New York, Cali, Texas, Florida, Ohio, and Illinois. No one would ever go to fucking Iowa and Nevada and places like that.

4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.


who is not bush but most like bush. tosser

 

you guys need to get more choices and also to change your freekin' election system.... its crap.

dud what more choices do you want in term of political parties (if that's what you meant)? i'm all for free speech but if you gonna say something negative then do explain the how/why you think so. anyone can put their foot in their mouth.


ok.... first off... you only really have 2 choices to vote for.  most countries have atleast 4.  jesus... even canada has 5 that can have a certain amount of power in canadian parliment.  especially now because we don't have a majority government.

 

second.... your voting system works basically like this (as far as i can tell) :

you vote within your riding for a slate of electors who are supposed to vote for the president in this case bush or kerry.

 

now... lets think about these two things....

there have been a number of times that the slate of electors has not voted for the candidate that they were pledged to.  on top of that there have been atleast 4 times that the elector's votes did not align themselves with the popular vote.... the most recent being your last election.

this system of voting eliminates the small ridings in each state that vote oposite of the rest of the state.  and thus eliminating the possibility of having a third party representation.  it also does not represent ALL of the american people's views.

 

 

so how 'bout i put my foot in your mouth biggrin

Congratulations. now that's a whole paragraph. a sound one too i might add. good job.

www.electoral-vote.com

4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada

you guys are still working off of the Roman model of democracy.  its not like you have to change the whole thing all at once.... you've changed it slightly in the past.

all you have to do is slowely allow it to evolve with your country.  a stagnating system of voting is one that can be abused IMHO

4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
In reply to
yeah, very good post, Loki. Kerry is the man.


who is not bush but most like bush. tosser

 

you guys need to get more choices and also to change your freekin' election system.... its crap.

dud what more choices do you want in term of political parties (if that's what you meant)? i'm all for free speech but if you gonna say something negative then do explain the how/why you think so. anyone can put their foot in their mouth.


ok.... first off... you only really have 2 choices to vote for.  most countries have atleast 4.  jesus... even canada has 5 that can have a certain amount of power in canadian parliment.  especially now because we don't have a majority government.

 

second.... your voting system works basically like this (as far as i can tell) :

you vote within your riding for a slate of electors who are supposed to vote for the president in this case bush or kerry.

 

now... lets think about these two things....

there have been a number of times that the slate of electors has not voted for the candidate that they were pledged to.  on top of that there have been atleast 4 times that the elector's votes did not align themselves with the popular vote.... the most recent being your last election.

this system of voting eliminates the small ridings in each state that vote oposite of the rest of the state.  and thus eliminating the possibility of having a third party representation.  it also does not represent ALL of the american people's views.

 

 

so how 'bout i put my foot in your mouth biggrin

Congratulations. now that's a whole paragraph. a sound one too i might add. good job.

www.electoral-vote.com


 

its also twice as much as you've written in this thread. smile

you don't have to get upset man... try responding with a different opinion because you obviously think that the american voting system is working.

4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
In reply to

you guys are still working off of the Roman model of democracy.  its not like you have to change the whole thing all at once.... you've changed it slightly in the past.

all you have to do is slowely allow it to evolve with your country.  a stagnating system of voting is one that can be abused IMHO


First of all, have you familiarize with the US constitutions? Does the word Tradition mean anything to you. It's something that should not be modified or tamperred with because it's very difficult for people to absolutely agree on a certain thing or issue.

 

 

4 years ago
Jobi
jobi Pic3625 Posts
USAAsheville once again
Music Style Glitchy snorbcore
If we used popular voting Al Gore would be president.
I don't see either side wanting to change from electoral college, though because it will remain a 2 party system is it stays that way, which benefits democrats and republicans.  And since they're the ones with the power to change it, we're pretty fucked.
4 years ago
joe
3499 Posts
Fiji
No dB, its not about how much you say/write. its about how sound/logical/practical it is.
4 years ago
Captain
Nick Pic11687 Posts
USASuperAmerica
Music Style thru and thru
In reply to
If we used popular voting Al Gore would be president.
I don't see either side wanting to change from electoral college, though because it will remain a 2 party system is it stays that way, which benefits democrats and republicans.  And since they're the ones with the power to change it, we're pretty fucked.

smile
4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada
In reply to
No dB, its not about how much you say/write. its about how sound/logical/practical it is.


i never said it was... you were the one that mentioned the size of my statement.

 

as for sound: there are many... many different systems of democratic government that i would deem better than the american way. logical: i stated a logical arguement based on the flaws in your system of election.  since what i'm talking about is hypothetical in nature (because we both know that your electoral system won't change) practicallity doesn't come into play here.  although it would be practical and in your best interest to have your vote mean more on a smaller scale.

 

you still haven't said anything to opose this and debate why this system of election is a good one.

4 years ago
dB
spacefunky Pic7236 Posts
Canada
In reply to
In reply to

you guys are still working off of the Roman model of democracy.  its not like you have to change the whole thing all at once.... you've changed it slightly in the past.

all you have to do is slowely allow it to evolve with your country.  a stagnating system of voting is one that can be abused IMHO


First of all, have you familiarize with the US constitutions? Does the word Tradition mean anything to you. It's something that should not be modified or tamperred with because it's very difficult for people to absolutely agree on a certain thing or issue.

 

 

i've read it.  i probably don't know it aswell as you should.

and yes... i do know what tradition means.

 

from what i gather ... amendments can be made.  they just aren't being made right now.

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